Meanwhile, in the rest of the world...

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Re: Meanwhile, in the rest of the world...

Postby Australian Dawn » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:36 pm

Sorry for the double post. :oops:
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Re: Meanwhile, in the rest of the world...

Postby Australian Dawn » Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:45 pm

And I bet if England was really in strife the US would come running to save the land of Shakespeare and the Magna Carta, no war winning wonder weapon required.

I don't know about Wales though. You'll probably be just as screwed as us. :twisted:
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Re: Meanwhile, in the rest of the world...

Postby gustav » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:19 pm

I think everything is flexible depending on situation - if it suits the current US narrative and situation they would support us - if not ..... just like the UK in WW2.
I am sure back then if they could have they would have, but just did not have sufficent resources to do so, so in stepped USA.
I think relations between Chiffley and Churchill may have not been the best either given their world viewpoints.

On a side note The East India Company was not the real start start to the Empire - I'd say they were the logical succesors to the Caribbean sugar trade - that was the real gold mine that kicked off the British mercantile / naval trade empire.
That was also possibly the root cause of
a) S7W (French vs British part) and thus also the AWI.
b) The wealth driving the Industrial Revolution - all that money sloshing around looking for something to do.
c) The search for new markets / opportunities thus also led to the EIC, which of course overtook the West Indies.

Empire by accidental design is my take. Too incompetent to have a grand scheme, just looking for a main chance - then used by some to extend their influence dressed up as bringing "civilisation" to the benighted savages.
Whereas the Chinese seem to have taken a proper Marxist 5 year plan approach. However very easy to fall into the Orientalist trap. I imagine like with the Birtish / US Empires it is a mixture of things - both plans and personal empire building. Possibly with just a little more organisation :)

Better start learning Mandarin and investing in umbrellas and face masks.
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Re: Meanwhile, in the rest of the world...

Postby Born to Wank » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:35 pm

Australian Dawn wrote:And I bet if England was really in strife the US would come running to save the land of Shakespeare and the Magna Carta, no war winning wonder weapon required.


I seriously doubt that, AD. In the last year, I've perceived such a deep disdain by isolationist Americans towards UK (and the UK military) that they'd probably just fucking pass the popcorn around.
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Re: Meanwhile, in the rest of the world...

Postby Not a chance » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:58 pm

Born to Wank wrote:
I seriously doubt that, AD. In the last year, I've perceived such a deep disdain by isolationist Americans towards UK (and the UK military) that they'd probably just fucking pass the popcorn around.


The question of "Will the US support its allies" seems to have been answered pretty conclusively by the Kurds and Ukrainians lately.
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Re: Meanwhile, in the rest of the world...

Postby Voice From Limbo » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:31 pm

That's Trumpsty Dumpsty.
He'll have a great fall.
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Re: Meanwhile, in the rest of the world...

Postby Bronshtein » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:16 pm

Gustav - happy to see the HEIC and West Indies Interest as parallel examples of a trend of 'entrepreneurs' manipulating/changing the course of Crown and Parliamentary rule (John Pym anyone?).

But hard to to see the HEIC as taking over from the West Indies - HEIC formed 1600, Saltpetre concession made them a fortune post 1670, whereas the West Indies Interest only got properly organised by the 1730s. (although Barbados and later WI expansion made fortunes for individuals and England before that).

Interesting that concessions to both parties - the Sugar Act of 1764 and the Tea Act 1773 both helped lose America - you win some you lose some I guess.

Maybe in c200 years or so China will lose its way - but whatever the Mandarin for Cyberdyne Technologies is will probably be the ones to take over.

Blimey - Jackie Chan as The Terminator! :shock:
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Re: Meanwhile, in the rest of the world...

Postby gustav » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:10 am

may be - but I thought the HEIC did not get really started in a big way until post Plassey - whereas the Sugar Trade was well up and about by the WSS.
but that's more my interpretation rather than real knowledge.
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Re: Meanwhile, in the rest of the world...

Postby JJCH nli » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:44 am

The HEIC received its charter in 1600. I’d suggest it really kicked off after Charles II effectively handed over the Indian portion of his dowry for a peppercorn and granted them exclusive rights to mint cash, raise armies and run a monopoly enterprise on trade. Long before Plassey, they were making serious dosh.

The British sugar trade didn’t start before the late 1640s but only really hit its straps in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. Too much competition at first, the Dutch only transplanted the trade after they were kicked out of NE Brazil but they, the French, the Spanish and of course the Portuguese all had massive sugar industries. Most folk don’t realise that the vast preponderance of the Atlantic slave trade, the manual labour of the sugar trade, ended up in Brazil, my wife and children’s ancestors included.
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Re: Meanwhile, in the rest of the world...

Postby Condottiero » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:07 pm

*SVM MALLEVS CVNNORVM*

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...
- Alphonse Karr
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