Crowdfunding Projects

Your thoughts on the (small) world of little lead miniatures.

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Postby Khurasanminiatures » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:57 pm

Ironically, the only things I feel I'd need it for are the things it seems worst suited for -- large and risky investments. As I mentioned in previous posts in this thread, I'd like to use it to feel out the market for big kits that would cause me to lose a pantload if I invested in them and no one bought them.

But those items to not seem to be the type that fuel the excitement of a kickstarter. You get people to invest a relatively modest amount, then keep enticing them to order more and more with gradual add-ons. That's not really the case with a kickstarter to invest in a $100 monster tank. Maybe the add-ons could be things like additional drives (my Siler tank can be upgraded as a low-rider grav tank) or weapons swaps (maybe a railgun instead of the plasma gun) but the big initial investment would I think put a lot of people off.

On the other hand I have a new 15mm multi-species alien army coming up that will have a full range of support weapons and vehicles, and I don't really feel the need to sell them at a discount and give over a % to Kickstarter -- I think they will sell extremely well, so why bother? I guess the feeding frenzy effect of Kickstarter would sell more of them, but I can't really quantify if the additional sales would compensate for the discount you need to sell them at, and the fee to kickstarter (and perhaps other fees -- amazon too, I think?).

Still back and forth on whether to kickstart my big tank in 28mm though.
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Postby Oliver » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:28 pm

TheImp wrote:
Oliver wrote:That said I would like to see a breakdown of what the $60 pledge has in it.

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What you see is what you get. The $100 deal adds 37 more pieces, plus all of the stretch goals. I have a feeling that its going to turn into a massive deal.


Apart from the fact that the picture is tiny and only about half of it can actually be guessed at. Yeah my eyesight is that bad ever since I lost my glasses in the bloody wood...
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Postby Maichus » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:41 pm

Khurasanminiatures wrote:Ironically, the only things I feel I'd need it for are the things it seems worst suited for -- large and risky investments. As I mentioned in previous posts in this thread, I'd like to use it to feel out the market for big kits that would cause me to lose a pantload if I invested in them and no one bought them.

But those items to not seem to be the type that fuel the excitement of a kickstarter. You get people to invest a relatively modest amount, then keep enticing them to order more and more with gradual add-ons. That's not really the case with a kickstarter to invest in a $100 monster tank. Maybe the add-ons could be things like additional drives (my Siler tank can be upgraded as a low-rider grav tank) or weapons swaps (maybe a railgun instead of the plasma gun) but the big initial investment would I think put a lot of people off.

On the other hand I have a new 15mm multi-species alien army coming up that will have a full range of support weapons and vehicles, and I don't really feel the need to sell them at a discount and give over a % to Kickstarter -- I think they will sell extremely well, so why bother? I guess the feeding frenzy effect of Kickstarter would sell more of them, but I can't really quantify if the additional sales would compensate for the discount you need to sell them at, and the fee to kickstarter (and perhaps other fees -- amazon too, I think?).

Still back and forth on whether to kickstart my big tank in 28mm though.


What one also has to take into account, imho, is the much broader audience, i.e. publicity, Kickstarter provides, especially for small businesses.

It would be interesting to know how many new customers say Tre gets through the campaign, who have never heard of RedBoxGames before.
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Postby The Arkady » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:28 pm

Delusional cunt wrote:67 models for $100 looks great, but shipping is a bit high at $25 for anyone outside of USA and Canada.


With this number of figures and the bulk thereof, I'd suspect their shipping options are rather limited. A medium or, more likely, large flat rate box from USPS should work, at about 45-60$ in actual shipping cost to a European destination. Not sure if they can find anything cheaper.

(Also, it's the same amount as CMoN/McVey charged on Sedition Wars, which should be of similar bulk.)
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Postby TheImp » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:28 am

Oliver wrote:Apart from the fact that the picture is tiny and only about half of it can actually be guessed at. Yeah my eyesight is that bad ever since I lost my glasses in the bloody wood...

John Pope posted a list of the models in the package. There are 26 that will be remastered and four that are original sculpts for Bones.

03429: Black Orc Archer
03405: Black Orc Hero
14640: Black Orc Tundra Stalker
03400: Orce Spearman and Swordsman
03609: Hell Hound
PA03598B George (Zombie)
03585: Oxidation Beast
03551: DHL Classics: Lizardmen (Spearman only)
03547: Juliette, Wizard
03517: Mockingbeast
03480: Aello, Harpy
03461: Goldar the Barbarian
03381: Satheras, Elf Warlock
03355: Bat Swarm
03340: Cassie, Female Gnome Wizard
03292: Almaran the Gold, Paladin with Flaming Sword
03255: Callie, Female Rogue with Bow
02834: Deladrin Assassin
02833: Medusa
02712: Eyebeast
14553: Athrand Nightblade, Wood Elf
01521: Anvall Thricedamned
77099: Male Human Wizard
77098: Female Human Wizard
03065: Kellen, Nobleman Adventurer (resculpt with hood up?)

There are four new sculpts, the male fighter type with sword and shield on the lower left, the valkyrie type female on the lower middle, the female fighter with dragon head on the top left, and the wizard (?) in the top middle.

And they are working on a high res pic so myopic folks like yourself can get a better look at them. ;)
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Postby Black Hat » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:07 pm

Khurasanminiatures wrote:Ironically, the only things I feel I'd need it for are the things it seems worst suited for -- large and risky investments. .

On the other hand I have a new 15mm multi-species alien army coming up that will have a full range of support weapons and vehicles, and I don't really feel the need to sell them at a discount and give over a % to Kickstarter -- I think they will sell extremely well, so why bother?


The thing about Kickstarter is that it works extremely well for companies who pricing model includes retailer and distributor discounts. They can provide figures and goodies to the end user at what looks like a large discount but which actually works out more than they would receive by selling the same items into the retail chain.

As you aren't priced to use retailers it is going to be a problem for you.

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Postby Khurasanminiatures » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:10 pm

Black Hat wrote:The thing about Kickstarter is that it works extremely well for companies who pricing model includes retailer and distributor discounts. They can provide figures and goodies to the end user at what looks like a large discount but which actually works out more than they would receive by selling the same items into the retail chain.

As you aren't priced to use retailers it is going to be a problem for you.


Right, one can sell a 28mm model for $5 or more -- and some are sold for a great deal more indeed -- but by and large 15mm models have to be no more than about $.70 or $.80. Considering how much the pieces cost to have cast, usually about $.25-$.35, there just isn't any room for selling to the trade. (Others may be able to manage it if they cast their own, but I cannot as I contract out.)

Same really goes for resin vehicles in 15mm scale. So any discount I'd be able to offer would be modest, especially as I then would be having to pay fees to Kickstarter on top of the discount.

That said I may give it a go sometime later this year, just to see what happens. Worst thing that can happen is to have it illustrated that in fact a certain vehicle should not be made in the first place. I haven't released any 28mm vehicles yet but am on the verge of doing so, when I finally get them from the caster, so that might give me a better sense of the market for 28mm vehicles that are not sci-fantasy vehicles. :)
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Postby Khurasanminiatures » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:26 pm

Although as an interesting footnote, I know that CMON use outside casters as well. I know this because we use the same caster here in the States, and they have once or twice screwed up and sent me CMON models by accident. :lol:

However they are always 28s, and the markup on 28s is vastly higher than on 15s.
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Postby Black Hat » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:53 pm

Khurasanminiatures wrote:Although as an interesting footnote, I know that CMON use outside casters as well. I know this because we use the same caster here in the States, and they have once or twice screwed up and sent me CMON models by accident. :lol:

However they are always 28s, and the markup on 28s is vastly higher than on 15s.


I have just had exactly that conversation with my box supplier explaining the costs of using someone like Griffin to produce 28mm or 15mm and pointing out that for the same production costs you can only sell the 15mm end product for half what you can sell 28mm for.

The Kickstarter model doesn't work for 15mm and I'd be surprised to see anyone selling 15mm through it.

I am looking into the idea of using it to fund some extensions to existing 28mm ranges (such as Cobalt-1) when it comes to the UK in the autumn.

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Postby TheImp » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:04 pm

What you want to create is basically a luxury item that will appeal to a specific subset of toy collectors and modelers, you're concerned that the price point that you'll have to stick to will be too high to attract pledges. I think it's doable, but I also think you'd have to follow a different formula than most of the successful game projects, and you might even want to put it in a different section of Kickstarter.

Let's look at Crania Anatomica Filigre as an example of a successful project with similar issues. It's a completely useless, but cool looking object. The artist set up a series of rewards for low-level pledges that will serve to promote his work in the future and give people the option of contributing less than the price of the sculpture itself. You'll note that not too many folks actually pledge less than the cost of the basic small sculpture. He also set up higher rewards to offer people the option of getting a larger, more elaborate version of the piece. And even though nobody went for the top-tier options, I think they're a good example of how to set up those kinds of reward in a way that won't put you in the position of giving away the store. The piece is now available in the unlimited edition, by the way, at almost twice the KS price.

It's your call, but I think you could pull it off...assuming your final product is awesome. :wink:
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