Unfortunately Sanguinary Sunday Prosecution

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Re: Unfortunately Sanguinary Sunday Prosecution

Postby Bronshtein » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:51 pm

Peterloo - no.
A private action was brought by one Thomas Redford against Captain Birley, Captain Withington, Trumpeter Meagher, and Private Oliver. Heard at Lancaster Spring Assizes 1822. The jury took six minutes to find in the defendants' favour on all counts.

Boston 'Massacre' - [5 rioting Bostonians shot] 2 soldiers; Hugh Montgomery and Matthew Killroy were acquitted of murder but convicted of manslaughter (they took 'benefit of clergy' and avoided long imprisonment but were branded on the thumb). Captain Thomas and six other soldiers were acquitted of all charges. The John Adams Society has a good website.

Paratroopers not noted for their sensitive approach to community policing - but that wasn't what the politicians wanted.

We shouldn't forget that although NICRA started out with legitimate aims we could all (probably) support (NI was a fucking mess and a disgrace to a liberal democratic Europe in the 60s) by 1972 it had been heavily infiltrated by the IRA and was no longer seeking reform in NI, but was part of the republican agenda to break Britsh rule.
That doesn't excuse shooting them all, but it does not mean they were Irish versions of Martin Luther King either, and their statements and aims need approaching with caution.
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Re: Unfortunately Sanguinary Sunday Prosecution

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:32 pm

I stopped drinking at an “Irish” bar because one of the regulars kept passing the hat “for the lads”. I kept getting dirty looks for not contributing.
I switched to a Polish bar. The food was better for one thing.

I always felt that the smart Irish left that shithole during the Famine (my ancestors did) and the dumb ones stayed behind writing glorious songs. I bought the albums.
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Re: Unfortunately Sanguinary Sunday Prosecution

Postby Bronshtein » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:46 pm

A bit culturally insensitive.
Ah well.
Loved 'The Fighting Men of Crossmaglen' and 'Eire Og'
But singing bollocks is different from shooting people I always find.
'For the lads' probably paid for his drinks for the week (unless the real 'lads' found out, in which case it probably paid for the reconstructive surgery on his knees).
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Re: Unfortunately Sanguinary Sunday Prosecution

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:17 pm

“.....our fetters rent in twain!”
God, what passes for poetry when patriotism and drink mix.
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Re: Unfortunately Sanguinary Sunday Prosecution

Postby Bronshtein » Thu May 16, 2019 11:24 am

So now Mad Dog Mordaunt wants to give an amnesty to British service personnel who committed war crimes more than 10 years ago.

Or does she?

The 'amnesty' is not an amnesty - it is a'presumption against prosecution' for offences over 10 years old. A presumption can be rebutted if the evidence is clear and public interest would be served.

So it is another hurdle (and potentially a big one) for a prosecution to get over but not an outright amnesty. If they did it and it is seen that they did it they can be prosecuted and convicted and sentenced.

But is doesn't apply to Northern Ireland anyway which is one of the big bones of contenion.
Which arguably is the one case where the prosecution should look at 'a realistic prospect of conviction' very carefully before bringing a trial given the continuing terrorist war on truth going on in Northern Ireland.

But even there there should be no 'amnesty'

Are we saying that all the international conventions and laws which we have signed in the last 80 years are to be abandoned for Mordaunt's love affair with uniform?

Well she says she wants to opt out of the ECHR in future armed conflict - so maybe.

But actually this looks like meaningless posturing for a power play.

The prosecution already should look at all the circumstances before bringing a case and the trial process should look at all the circumstances in which soldiers sailors and airmen acted at the time to come to a fair assessment of their behaviour.
Despite what the Sun etc say people are not judged by the standards of a North London drawing room when they were being shot at in Iraq or Afghanistan or the Falls Road.

So what she is really saying is - I love big boys in serge and please can I be PM next?

Oh and the Guardian naturally jumps on the bandwagon:
it’s clear, as a matter of political reality, why the government has to exclude Northern Ireland: if it didn’t, it could lead to the murder of UK citizens going unpunished.

But what if the 'political reality' meant that it was not only prosecuting soldiers for 47 year old actions to keep the Republicans happy, but was deliberately suppressing cast iron evidence against 'Sinn Fein' politicians of conspiracy to murder, to keep Republicans happy too? So much for the murder of UK citizens going unpunished eh?
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Re: Unfortunately Sanguinary Sunday Prosecution

Postby FFS » Thu May 16, 2019 7:19 pm

Has anyone considered bringing a prosecution against the officer in charge of the allocation of the paras for this particular "policing"?
And I don't mean the poor Rupert who was at the bottom of the chain of command.
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