May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Hew Johns » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:58 pm

Yes.

Quite relevant to the part your argument where you suggest the woman is just a mixed up teen like Aunt Marge back in the day. Arguably she killed two infants through neglect. Along with giving comfort to a particularly vile murderous gang.

She can't receive a British trial because she is in Kurdish militia jurisdiction. What do you propose? Britain send a gunboat up the Yangtse^H^H^H^H^H^H^HEuphrates? Like a non-pathetic nation?-)

As for the citizenship thing, I don't have an educated opinion. If it's an obvious unlawful act by the Home Office and is just being done for political theater, you have my sympathies. But my advice is to chose you battles more carefully. I'd guess most Brits don't see May kicking a Brit who is down, so much as kicking a Brit who deserves a good kicking. One who, all things considered, has it a lot better than so many others.
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby rebelyell2006 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:03 pm

But there are legal and just ways to deal with that. Ignoring the law in order to punish somebody without a trial is not justice, it is corruption and tyranny.
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Bronshtein » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:47 pm

Hew Johns wrote:Quite relevant to the part your argument where you suggest the woman is just a mixed up teen like Aunt Marge back in the day. Arguably she killed two infants through neglect. Along with giving comfort to a particularly vile murderous gang.
Well she IS a teenager. And she made her decision when she was 15 - a child in English law - that doesn't give her a get out of gaol free card but it is worth considering when making decisions about her
She can't receive a British trial because she is in Kurdish militia jurisdiction. What do you propose? Britain send a gunboat up the Yangtse^H^H^H^H^H^H^HEuphrates? Like a non-pathetic nation?-)
Er, she can't get a British trial because we just turned down her request to come back to Britain and face the music. No gunboat required - a simple plane ticket would have sufficed.

As for the citizenship thing, I don't have an educated opinion. If it's an obvious unlawful act by the Home Office and is just being done for political theater, you have my sympathies. But my advice is to chose you battles more carefully. I'd guess most Brits don't see May kicking a Brit who is down, so much as kicking a Brit who deserves a good kicking. One who, all things considered, has it a lot better than so many others.

And most Brits until recently favoured the reintroduction of the death penalty - I'm talking moral and legal responsibility not a race to the bottom of the populist midden.
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Hermit » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:17 pm

It's a difficult situation for the government to decide on. They're damned if they do, and they're damned if they don't. I think the only thing that can really be agreed on by most sane people is that her child is certainly an innocent in all of this, even if she is not.

Now that Daesh is in it's dying throes, they'll be a large number of it's former members all eager to return to their respective countries, now that their brutal "paradise" has collapsed. The countries that they're returning to, such as the UK, have a point in worrying that the ideology of Daesh will spread worldwide in the seeded form of these returnees.

To give an example of how dangerous this is: MS-13 was only a LA streetgang in the late 1970s, but due to a misguided immigration policy in the US, these members were deported back to their respective Latin-American countries. Once there, they maintained their criminality and connections and grew more cells of MS-13, until it's now become a larger criminal network that's importing crime back into the US. This model works just as well for terrorist organisations, and western governments are all too aware of that.

So, don't be surprised that the UK are going into all the technicalities they can find to prevent her from returning, such as the definitions that can have someone stripped of their nationality. I'd expect them to do no less. Whether it works or not, is another matter.

Bronshtein wrote:What a pathetic little nation we are.


No we're not. Although, I don't know what little nation you're posting from, because it's certainly not the UK, is it?
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby FFS » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:29 pm

Last time I looked Wales was still in the UK.
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Hermit » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:30 pm

So he claims to be in.
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby lacking sympathy » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:33 pm

Bronnies conflicted and full of self-loathing because he's discovered that his beloved socialist Labour party is full of anti-Semites.
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby FFS » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:39 pm

From another part of t'internet:


jfngw says:
20 February, 2019 at 9:32 am

"I see the Tories now believe they can remove your citizenship if you are not quite ethnically pure enough, they just need to claim you are a threat to society.

With all the deaths this current UK government is claimed to be responsible for, just in the UK, the current Home Secretary should really be a bit afraid of his continued status. They have a death toll that ISIS can only dream of. Along with their, just following orders, DWP employees."

Also her son will grow up, if he survives, a fervent UK hater, because of the way we treated his mother.
As it stands, he appears to be a British citizen, as his mother was a British citizen at his birth, any changes afterwards being irrelevant.
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Bronshtein » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:05 am

I loathe the current influx into the Labour Party of terrorist hugging pretend lefties - don't see a socialist supporting the racist dictators of the Arab League.

Conflicted? Because I want to see the rule of law applied to a British citizen? Not me that's confused and conflicted.

I despise what Begum went to join and suspect we may not get on too well over Israel etc but I believe natural justice is there to protect against any prejudices I or the Tory Party may harbour against her. The rule of law exists to prevent personal animus overturn what is right. If I wanted freedom from anti-Semitism but cheered the persecution of Muslims I'd be a pretty poor example of a human being and a socialist.

As for 'us' being a pathetic little nation - I was thinking of the English led UK - little Englander Brexit vote, desperately hoping we can somehow build an Imperial scale presence on the back of vacuum cleaner production in Singapore and a hatred of fruit pickers from Eastern Europe. Add the pusillanimous caving in to populist tabloid whining about the return of a teenage girl and her child without charge or trial and I think pathetic conveys too positive a picture of what this country has become.
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby JJCH nli » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:35 am

Hmm. Dunno how long you were or even if you were a member of the British Labour Party but there was always an element that opposed Zionism. Goes back to a time when Clem Attlee was PM and terrorists were blowing up hotels, murdering British soldiers and the like. Not sure I would ever have described Menachem Begin as a 'leftie'. Far more pronounced than it ever was in the Australian Labor Party, which institutionally has steadfastly maintained a suck-hole approach to anything the state of Israel does.

I won't pretend to have any deep insight into current manifestations, real or imagined, of widespread anti-semitism in the British Labour Party but I will make the point that anti-semitism and being opposed to the policies of the State of Israel are not identical propositions, nor does the latter necessarily stem from the former. Alas, they are frequently conflated to serve the narrative of folk for political convenience. It was always interesting to see the Israel Right or Wrong crowd hook into a fellow branch member who was a Hungarian Jew, Holocaust survivor and one time member of the Bund because he refused to be in lock-step with the Bibi Netanyahus of this world. Really fucking elevating stuff. Not sure old Frank was ever a fan of Arab dictators either.

Now as for the lass in question. It's bloody silly, game set and match to anyone appealing her deprivation of citizenship. Oddly enough, just this morning, Neil Prakash, the Australian version but one who is infinitely more loathsome as he was an active recruiter for Daesh, decided not to appeal his revocation of citizenship. Neil however is already facing a fifteen year stretch in a Turkish jail and being returned to OZ would see him subject to another lengthy term for terrorism related charges upon return. I guess he figures it's better to take his chances as a stateless person.

Now Britain came late to the party with the 'proscribed areas of travel' concept brought in by our pollies. Had they done it when Australia did they could have charged the girl with an offence of some sort upon return. I'm not saying it's a good policy but it would have given them the option of saying, 'yeah OK but she will receive her punishment upon return'. Punishing a child and her child seems fucking stupid and inhumane to me.
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