May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Picador » Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:05 pm

Your case rests on her being a child in English law? The age of criminal responsibility is 10 in English law.

She committed a criminal act, knowingly and willingly. Not underage sex. Not doing Class Cs. Not underage drinking. A Proper Criminal Act that would have once been prosecuted under the Treason Act, that you woolly minded liberals got watered down into uselessness, under charges of offering succour and support to enemies of the British state. Her crimes are arguably more heinous than those of William Joyce, regardless of her age.

human rights do not trump the desire of a Home Secretary to 'protect' the country apparently.


If you want to go down that route we may as well apologise for Dresden and pay reparations to Germany. And give all the cunts who were hanged following Nuremberg posthumous pardons. And condemn Mossad for kidnapping Eichmann and excoriate the state of Israel for executing him.

But apparently she can be for being allowed out of the country without adult supervision and then have her citizenship stripped from her.


She wasn't 'allowed out of the country' she bought a plane ticket, nicked her older sister's passport and altered her appearance. That smacks of a deliberate attempt to leave the country by deception in my world. You'll no doubt argue that it's all border control's fault.
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Bronshtein » Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:31 pm

I don't have a case.
She does.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Haven't seen a trial - have you?
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Picador » Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:14 pm

Bronshtein wrote:I don't have a case.
She does.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Haven't seen a trial - have you?


Well thanks for addressing a point I didn't raise. If that's all you've got I suppose 'give her a fair trial, and then hang her' will have to do.
Carry on Tango, you're doing a fine job of fucking up TNP. Bravo!
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Bronshtein » Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:22 am

My point is precisely half of that - give her a fair trial.

She was abandoned by a politician with an executive order and now prevented from briefing any counsel properly or appearing in a court to argue her case to have that illegal act overturned.

She has said she wants to return and is prepared to face any consequences.

We have abrogated our responsibility - to her, to international law ( a theme in Johnson's administration - I know this started before his government), and to ourselves.

One of many concerns is that the 'Supreme Court' has prejudiced any argument about the merits of her case, stating that a politician's view of what constitutes national security trumps universal human rights. That is pretty much the argument of every tin pot dictatorship.

It might suit many people now, but when dePfeffel has withdrawn us from all Human Rights legislation and international agreements we might all regret not standing up for Begum's right to be represented fairly in an independent court of law.
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Bollocks to Brexit » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:05 pm

While I think that the world would be a better place if Ms Begum and her ilk had met early deaths during the collapse of their Caliphate, the decision of the Supreme Court that basic human rights can be put aside if a politician says that they should be is deeply disturbing, especially when significant elements of the governing party are rather keen on cancelling human rights legislation.

Be careful what you wish for.
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Hew Johns » Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:33 pm

Some points:
Bronny, in past argumebts when vileness of an accused has been pointed out, you insist that you are making an ethical argument about the correct application of the law. Now you have a unanimous decision that you don't like and you make an emotional appeal.
It seems a bit of a wheeze to argue than Begum must be present to present an adequate defense. What about Zoom? Obviously once she lands in Britain, whatever the outcome, she can't be sent elsewhere at that point.
She is not actually being punished. She was administratively stripped of her citizenship, which is a great burden but not punishment. She is where she is by her choices.
Is it actually a crime in Britain to run off to a foreign land and pledge allegiance to a rapaciously murderous banditry? Can and does British jurisdiction and protection extend across borders?
Stripping citizenship in such a situation does not seem unjust. (Question of age aside.)
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Picador » Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:52 pm

That's the problem that liberals have Hew. They follow the rule of law, until it doesn't go their way. Then they plead to humanitarianism.

If the bitch had been killed in an allied airstrike Bronny wouldn't be going through such angst. Although it would still have been the fault of the 'West'.
Carry on Tango, you're doing a fine job of fucking up TNP. Bravo!
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Hew Johns » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:10 pm

As a liberal, I must point out conservatives piss and moan when it doesn't go their way either.
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Picador » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:14 pm

Hew Johns wrote:As a liberal, I must point out conservatives piss and moan when it doesn't go their way either.


As a conservative, I must point out that neither side occupies the moral high ground.
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Re: May Kicks Another Brit While They Are Down

Postby Bronshtein » Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:15 am

I claim no high ground based on imagined political affiliations. This is not left vs right. It is about the rule of law vs political interference in human rights.

The 'Supreme Court' took a political decision that Javid's interpretation of National Security prevailed over the judiciary's. This is a bizarre abrogation of their role.

They have refused Begum permission to enter the UK to argue her case. They did not decide that Javid's stripping of her citizenship by administrative fiat was legal. They have however prevented her from challenging that fiat in court by deciding on bizarre grounds that she is not allowed to return and brief her legal team or put her case in person. She is trapped by that decision of Javid's in a prison camp in Northern Syria where she has no access to her legal team.

There are I believe good grounds for her to win her case against Javid. That however, is not the case here. All that is at issue here is; should she be allowed proper access to justice to put that case against Javid's administrative decision?

Our current iteration of the highest court took the opinion she is not allowed that access. That is why I argue with the decision. Because it is wrong. It flouts natural justice.

My opinion about her guilt for acts in Syria is irrelevant. I simply believe that a British Citizen is our responsibility. If she was guilty of crimes; bring her home and try her. We owe it to her, but also we owe it to the rest of the world and to ourselves, and the legitimacy of our justice system.
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