TMP antics summary.

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Re: TMP antics summary.

Postby Norton C Wongpower » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:05 pm

Bravo.
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Re: TMP antics summary.

Postby Goldwyrm » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:08 pm

pete wrote:Ok, I'm outa there, I pulled the TAG adds from TMP today, no more supporting membership, i can't really be seen to support what amounts to grooming of vulnerable people...


Yes. Wargamers are a vulnerable bunch.
It is. And it is not. When it is, and when it is not, is the question or the answer, or both or neither.
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Re: TMP antics summary.

Postby pete » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:10 pm

Goldwyrm wrote:
pete wrote:Ok, I'm outa there, I pulled the TAG adds from TMP today, no more supporting membership, i can't really be seen to support what amounts to grooming of vulnerable people...


Yes. Wargamers are a vulnerable bunch.


yup... 0;)
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Re: TMP antics summary.

Postby Norton C Wongpower » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:58 pm

Macunaima wrote:Just a quick example of where this shit can lead:

Bill himself says that Barbie, one of the people he was helping, tried to set him up for blackmail by claiming that he was "exploiting" her and saying she'd drop charges if her demands were met.

Well, OK, internet and all. Such a thing could happen to anyone, anywhere.

But the fact that some of these people are trans, who almost certainly have sex-working histories (at least some of them) and the fact that this "charity" stuff crosses international borders at a time when "human trafficking" has become a law enforcement buzzword...

Just imagine if Barbie made a friend on TMP and got him to pony up some cash for an "emergency", just like she did Monty. Then let's say Barbie uses said cash to migrate to another city, where she starts work as a prostitute.

By many country's laws, including Brazil's and the U.S.'s, the person who gave her that cash is no liable to be charged with trafficking in persons, even if s/he didn't know what was going on. If Barbie and the person were to engage in sexualized banter of the sort that's common on "TransPinnay Finder", a website that advertises that one of its goals is to help transpinnays gfind "western" boyfriends, that would be all the evidence the State needs to make someone's next few years of life extremely interesting, indeed.

This is why when you do things like this, everything needs to be up front and out in the open. What Bill is doing is unethical and extremely dangerous.
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Re: TMP antics summary.

Postby dieselmonkey » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:09 pm

pete wrote:Ok, I'm outa there, I pulled the TAG adds from TMP today, no more supporting membership, i can't really be seen to support what amounts to grooming of vulnerable people...


Good for you. There's something deeply unpleasant about the whole situation that does smack of exploitation.
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Re: TMP antics summary.

Postby ALizardInCrimson » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:46 pm

Can someone mail this to tmp advertisers?
all of them......


Macunaima wrote:An open letter to Bill Armintrout from another wargamer who does support work with trans people and sex workers.

Dear Bill.

I can't post this on your site because you banned me last year after the noted extremist Mithmee threatened to kill me and I responded by "outing" Mr. Chester Sleezer with his real name (which was already available on his TMP member page). You considered this cyberstalking, asked me to justify it, and then never bothered to even get back in touch after I did justify it (repeatedly), even though Mr. Sleezer's threats were a clear breach of TMP's guidelines and, arguably, several laws as well.

So it goes.

What I'm writing to you about today is the latest imbroglio you have gotten yourself into regarding what seems to be your completely laudable support for transexual people in the Phillipines. Let's recap how the story has gone so far, according to the folks on Frothers:


1) Frothers commented on the strangeness of The Editor's posting about his female editors
2) Someone at Frothers jokingly observed that they look like transwomen.
3) To Frothers' shock, someone in fact found a blog for Philippine transwomen, "transpinayfinder," on which Bill's new editors all post, photos and all. This blog was started by and run by a figure calling himself "Monty Schwab."
4) After much discussion and joking about this state of affairs, Bill arrived and began debating with Frothers. One thing he claimed is that there's a charity that helps the transsexual Filipinos, and he helps with the charity.
5) Some digging was done and an aggrieved transsexual's posting on Facebook indicated that Monty Schwab is actually William Armintrout of New York.
6) Bill has never flatly denied that he is "Monty Schwab." It turns out the so-called charity is paying the "girls" for their stories and for editing TMP. This position was much derided.
7) The transsexual editors were all brought here by Bill to post, and some of them inadvertently let things slip, especially that Bill is Monty Schwab.


Let me make myself perfectly clear where I stand on all this, presuming it's true:

1) Given the prejudices transpeople face, I think it's a perfectly wonderful thing that you are helping some of them get jobs as TMP editors. Good on you!

2) 150 USD is not a bad salary for this sort of work, especially by Filipino standards. The people doing it are adults and can quit any time they want. They are not being exploited.

3) It is no ones' business what you or any other consenting adult decide to do in the privacy of your own homes.

4) Speaking as an aging, overweight white guy who studies prostitution in a so-called third world country (Brazil) who does trans- and sex work support work, I find it INCREDIBLY offensive that certain assholes think your only interest in the plight of transpeople needs must be prurient. There are many people, of all types, who do this sort of work and do not have sexual relations with the people they help. I will give you the benefit of the doubt here, even if no one else will. Arguably, sex workers are one of the most stigmatized groups of people on the planet and trans people - who often can only get sex work when they can get any work at all - are even more stigmatized in this already "understood as disposable" group. Anyone with half a heart and half a brain should be able to see how these people need all the aid they can get and those of us who try to help shouldn't be virtually slandered as dirty old men.

But, given all this..... Jesus Christ on a fucking pony, what the hell were you thinking, Bill?

If you are going to do this sort of support work, YOU DO NOT DO IT ON THE QT, hiding your identity while posting coy and sexualizing banter with the people you are trying to help.

You are a well-off, white, American middle-aged guy, my friend. The people you are helping are quite publicly out and about about what they are and what they do. They don't need you to "protect their privacy". The only person's privacy who you are protecting here is "Monty Schwab's", who by all accounts is someone EXTREMELY close to you, if not you yourself.

I have been working with transpeople and sex workers for ten years: NO ONE does this stuff anonymously while running sites like "TransPinnay Helper", Bill, precisely because working with stigmatized groups like this, in places like Brazil or the Phillipines, can easily lay one open to charges of sexual exploitation or trafficking of persons. YOU DO NOT DO TRANS AND SEX WORKER SUPPORT ANONYMOUSLY. No one does that unless they are doing something illegal or - and I'm pretty sure this is your case - they themselves are mortally embarrassed by the people they are associating with.

If your trans employees are out and about - and they are - the only possible conclusion is that the "privacy" you are protecting is "Monty's". And if he's not straight forward about what he's doing, then you should have serious questions about him. If he is you, then you should ask yourself what "help" is this that you're giving that doesn't even have the courage to speak it's own name.

A simple declaration on TMP: "We are proud to support transsexual rights and hire transsexual employees" would have been all it took.

Sure, Frothers would have whooped and laughed and some of your own right wing TMP supporters would have sputtered. But that would have been it. That was all that really needed to be said. And, presuming that some of your workers are cisgendered female and some trans-, nobody's "privacy" would have been any more violated than "Monty's" photo blog already violates it. You could've invited prying personalities to knock themselves out trying to figure out who is who. This is PRECISELY what we do with the Daspu Fashion Line here in Brazil, when we put sex workers, university professors, police women and movie stars all on the same catwalk in our line of clothes, saying to the audience "Some of the people on the catwalk tonight are sex workers. Can't tell the difference between them and the movies stars, cops and teachers now, can you? So maybe you should rethink your prejudices about whores, you reckon...?"

What you really seem to be scared about here is being outed YOURSELF. Even though your own life is hundreds of times more privileged and economically stable than the lives of the folks you are trying to help, you're apparently not willing for one single minute to help share the burden of the prejudice and stigma those transpinnay women SHOULDER EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THEIR LIVES. You and Monty are gawkers. You are fooling yourselves if you think that you are "helping" people by tossing them a bit of cash and not coming along for the ride yourself.

And this is made all the more serious, to me, by your on-going relationship with the Latter Day Saints, which is one of the most trans- and homophobic religions out there. In fact, from where I'm sitting, what this all looks like is that you won't come forward on what you are doing because fear that your own religion will castigate you for your acts.

Please, for the sake of the people you claim to want to help, put an end to this farce by either publicly cutting your ties with "Monty" (unless he's willing to publicly make it known who he himself is) or letting it be known you are him. And if that's true, then just tell people you support trans people and are doing everything in your power to help them get work and financial stability. If people don't like that, fuck 'em.

But don't continue with this BS about "protecting privacy" when the cat is pretty much entirely out of the bag. Either take a stand regarding what you believe in or head to confessional (or wherever it is Mormons go when they've been bad little boys and/or girls). You can't be a trans supporter and simultaneously try to not let anyone know, PARTICULARLY if what you are trying to do is work for trans rights and not, say, fulfill some weird little redemption fantasy of your own...

Best of luck,
Thaddeus Gregory Blanchette



If anyone with a functioning account who doesn't worry about being banned could post this to TMP, I'd be grateful.
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Re: TMP antics summary.

Postby General Paranoia » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:59 pm

ALizardInCrimson wrote:Can someone mail this to tmp advertisers?
all of them......

Bill probably could... depends if he's feeling as self-distructive as he has been all week! :loopy:
Editor in Chief Bill wrote:It also 'thins the herd' so to speak, so that marginal and under-financed companies fall off the radar, leaving the better managed companies to dominate the news sphere.
TMP - killing off small companies!
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Re: TMP antics summary.

Postby Ajsalium » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:43 pm

Even though what I'm going to post is "old news" to some, it's something I've learnt lately about MontyBill that, in my opinion, everybody should know.

On April the 20th 2010 Editor in Chief Bill posted a link to a news story about two kids, aged 12 and 13, being raped, on the Humor board of TMP.
Here's the thread:
http://theminiaturespage.com/plus/msg.mv?id=148058

Go figure, I don't find anything remotely funny about kids being raped.
And I think that Bill finding it amusing talks tons about him.
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Re: TMP antics summary.

Postby Norton C Wongpower » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:47 pm

angelbarracks wrote:Miniature Mojo
9 hours ago
Hello Facebook followers. Some of you are also probably subscribers to, members of, or guest visitors to The Miniatures Page (http://www.theminiaturespage.com) and so I thought I ought explain why miniatureMOJO will not (in fact, cannot) be posting there again.

First though, let me say that as an individual and company, I/we belong to quite a few wargaming forums, either in my personal capacity as Silent Invader or in a corporate role as miniatureMOJO. The nature of being an essentially one-man business where the business is also the one-man's hobby is that the two often seemingly blend into one, so sometimes I will post 'hobby' using the 'business' username and 'business' using the 'hobby' username. With this in mind, my primary wargaming forum presence is at Lead Adventure ( http://www.lead-adventure.de) where I am known as Silent Invader (and am presently the Mod of its Post Apocalypse board).

Returning to the matter in hand, miniatureMOJO can no longer post to The Miniatures Page (TMP), as without notice or discussion the miniatureMOJO username was apparently 'locked' by that site's administrator/owner, it's Editor-in-chief William Armintrout (WA), or by other TMP staff.

This lock followed our request for clarification of some disturbing information that had come to light. To be clear, our questions were not answered but were deleted, presumably by WA although perhaps possibly by some other of TMP's editorial staff.

Prior to me asking the afore-mentioned questions, Andrew May (whom I know from gatherings of British Lead Adventurers), had pointed to an old thread on TMP that pertained to an instance of child abuse, which I found to be disturbing. I have appended a screenshot of where I express my concern.

Subsequent to this, Andrew posted a message in which he referred to Monty Schwab (MS), who it seems runs a website Transpinayhelper (transpinayhelper.blogspot.co.uk) for Philippino transsexuals. (NB: I believe it is a feature of Blogspot that viewing from the UK generates a .co.uk domain name and from the USA .com)

Let me stress that (a) I applaud those who freely extend help to those in difficult and dangerous circumstances and (b) I regard activities between consenting adults to be their business to do as pleases them. What I will not tolerate is where there is a lack of consent and with regard to minors (ie, aged under 18 years) I think it is generally accepted that an absence of consent is presumed. Child abuse is legally and morally wrong, it is also disgusting and disturbing. There are personal reasons (which I will not discuss) as to why I feel so strongly though I fail to see how any right-minded person could be comfortable with such activities.

Returning to MS, the following page...

http://transpinayhelper.blogspot.co.uk/ ... 8.html?m=1

... includes commentary that I found disturbing. Namely:

---------- QUOTE

"For transpinay, this means that if you are under 18, Americans are unlikely to want a relationship with you - it's not worth the risk of going to jail!"

"It also means that if you lie about your age - if you're 16 and claim to be 18 - when your American boyfriend finds out, he will probably be afraid that you will blackmail him, and will run away!"

UNQUOTE ----------

This prompted me to post the following on TMP:

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=353870

---------- QUOTE

Andrew, not sure why your post is now deleted but you mentioned Monty Schwab who I just googled.

At this link:
(link)

I found this comment authored by the same name:

"For transpinay, this means that if you are under 18, Americans are unlikely to want a relationship with you – it's not worth the risk of going to jail!"

"It also means that if you lie about your age – if you're 16 and claim to be 18 – when your American boyfriend finds out, he will probably be afraid that you will blackmail him, and will run away!"

This seems to discourage involvement in child abuse, not because it's morally and legally wrong (and, frankly, disgusting) but because of the risk/consequences for the adult abuser if caught.

At this point, Bill, I want to understand the connection that it seems is being drawn between you and Monty Schwab. Was the above comment authored by you in the persona of Monty Schwab? Are you in agreement with what Monty wrote?

I ask these questions because they are extremely relevant, in my eyes at least, to the standing of TMP. I have no desire to be associated with a website that as a body corporate or by association condones or otherwise hand waves child abuse and I would like reassurance in this respect.

UNQUOTE ----------

As mentioned previously, this post was then deleted by TMP staff and the miniatureMOJO account locked.

NB: Screenshots are appended

It occurs to me that having communicated on this issue, some might accuse miniatureMOJO of profiteering from the controversy, should any resulting increased awareness lead to increased sales. With this in mind I have taken the decision to temporarily close the store and will refund all sales since this broke last night (a website announcement will follow ASAP). I realise that this will inconvenience loyal customers but please rest assured that this is a temporary measure only and we will be reopening in the near future: I hope that you understand.

One final point: neither do I like bullying. In posting this explanation it is not my intent or desire to 'whip up a mob'. I asked WA for clarification but it was not forthcoming and instead my questions were deleted and our account locked. As the questions remain unanswered my concerns persist and so, in the absence of a reply, I have made a report to the proper authorities for them to investigate, consider and if necessary act. Suffice to say that I make no judgement that child abuse (including grooming) has occurred but I am sufficiently disturbed by what I have read and the reaction to my questioning of it that I have put the matter in front of those whose duty it is to formally investigate.

Steve Marshall
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Re: TMP antics summary.

Postby Ensign » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:08 am

Image

Image

Trusted colleague or low repute? how opinions change in 45 mins.
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