Moon Unit Tsu wrote:Sun Tsu is one of those semi legendary philosophers, like Socrates, who probably existed. But later “philosophers” found him a convenient source to strap their own opinions on.
Things were different back then. The in-thing to do was not to put things out in your own name, but to attribute your ideas to a famous name.
So a lot of obvious shit is attributed to a famous guy who is above reproach.
One thing that has always annoyed me was the idea that “the wisdom of the East” is superior to anything Western.
That’s why wargamers with Samurai armies always pout that “Western knights never faced Samurai!” Well, the opposite is also true. Samurai never faced Western knights. So your WRG and DBM army lists and Special Rules are really just a joke.
My point? Sun Tsu is rather obvious wisdom, given an undeserved patina of superior wisdom. I prefer Machiavelli.
The problem is Machiavelli
Art of War isn't practical, despite the praise from quarters: he just re-regurgitates Vegetius and some other writers, just to hype his own cred, while besmirching condottieri. Most pursuing a military calling in the Medieval/Renaissance world would've read a Latin or vernacular copy of
De Re Militari, but wouldn't make the reader an awesome commander, and Machiavelli's militia failed miserably in battle.
Regarding Sun Tzu, it's funny how smegboss thinks PAVN commanders were well versed, yet even if some were, it didn't produce results on the battlefield. He gets het up when I point out the various offensives with conventional forces were defeated with heavy losses. He's stupid enough to think every East Asian is great at maths and knows martial arts...
Katana Kunts aside, anyone familiar with Thomas Cleary? I've read his translations of of the Chinese military classics, like the treatise written by Sun Tzu's descendant and commentaries about the Art of War, and the Japanese works derived from them.
http://www.samurai-archives.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=70048&sid=48cf0052f15b45e19e23f17d4274a817#70048ltdomer98 wrote:It's been a long time since I read any Cleary, but reading his stuff in undergrad, specifically his translation of the Sun Zi and the "Japanese Art of War", he was one of the worst at trying to turn things into cosmological "philosophy" instead of "hey, this is a book about how to kill the enemy". He was at the forefront of turning Chinese & Japanese texts into some sort of Eastern exotic voodoo mystic mumbojumbo adapted to business or yoga or horse racing or whatever. My Asian philosophy professor loved him, which should immediately be a red flag. He's considered a hack at best by the Chinese history profs I know, and is one of the main reasons I'm wary of anything put out by Shambala Publishing.